Chris Blackwell interview, Part 2: Now and Zen (1987-1988) and Manic Nirvana (1989-1990)

This three-part interview of Chris Blackwell originally appeared in an edition of the newsletter "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History."

In Part 1 last week, we were introduced to Chris Blackwell, a session drummer who hit the jackpot in 1987 when a few demos featuring his work were passed on from a publisher to Robert Plant. Among them was a song called "Heaven Knows," which particularly caught Plant's attention, and so he personally called up the musicians from the demo.

CB: Next thing I know there's a message on my answering machine saying, "Hi, it's Robert Plant" and would I like to join his band? He didn't even get his manager to call me! I didn't hesitate in calling him back because I thought it was a wind up! I mean you don't normally get Robert Plant leaving messages do you!

SS: Why didn't you write any of the material on Now and Zen?

CB: I thought it was a session. You don't go into a session and expect to write songs! Anyway, [keyboardist] Phil [Johnstone] had most of that side covered. It was very much Robert and Phil's album. As far as I knew I was contracted to record the album and that was that. After the recording was finished Robert started talking about us as a band and about the upcoming tours and so on. [Bassist] Phil Scragg had other commitments at the time, and he is now heavily into the Jazz scene, so perhaps it was a wise decision on his part. He never played with us live at all - Charlie [Jones] joined at the final stages of recording Now and Zen.

SS: And when you went on the road, it was the first time in Plant's solo career that he sang Led Zeppelin material. Do you know what was going through his head?

CB: You'd have to ask him that! He did seem to have an aversion to playing any Zep though. Zeppelin songs are so good to play, and we were such big fans of all that. We would play stuff in rehearsal when he wasn't there. One time he walked in on us playing "Immigrant Song" and joined in, and off we went!

SS: Do you remember the process by which the Led Zeppelin tracks covered in concert were selected?

CB: I think we all made suggestions based on our understanding of what the songs were, and how we felt they would fit into the set. Obviously 'Stairway to Heaven' was taboo! But I did get to play mandolin live on 'Going to California' . . .

SS: Jimmy Page showed up at a few of Plant's performances in 1988. They played together at the last concert of the Non Stop Go tour. What was it like having him around?

CB: Another very nice man! Great fun to be with, and an incredible musical mind - you really do feel like you are in the presence of genius.

SS: In October 1988, Jimmy and Robert brought their overlapping U.S. tours to the same venue two nights in a row, in Worcester, Massachusetts. They didn't play at each other's shows, but Robert did attend Jimmy's. Do you remember this?

CB: That first tour in '88 with Planty was such an eye opener for me that I was too busy having a good time to take part in any politics that may be going down. I do remember Robert going to Jimmy's show wearing a turban and sunglasses though - problem is he probably looked more conspicuous like that! Shortly afterwards he began to wear Jimmy Page T-shirts on stage.

SS: The next project was the album Manic Nirvana. What was the process for that?

CB: Manic Nirvana was great fun as we all knew each other by then, and we had a tour under our belts which brought many shared experiences into the frame. We began work on this straight after the Now and Zen 'Non Stop Go' tour and we were all encouraged to contribute to the writing.

I felt a little stifled in the rehearsal room, so I wrote 'Tie Dye on the Highway' in my own studio and presented it to Robert complete. He added the melody and lyrics (incidentally, that's me playing guitar on that track!).

The other stuff was written at Robert's house in Wales - 'Watching You' I think I have on video as it is actually being written! 'Big Love' began as a drum feel and just grew from there really.

SS: When you say "Robert's house in Wales," you don't mean the famous Bron-Yr-Aur cottage, do you?

CB: No, unfortunately! He had a lovely house in Monmouth, Wales, that apparently used to belong to the doctor who discovered the G spot (typical!).

SS: What an imagination that doctor must have had! So ... Jimmy Page turned up again for Plant's appearance at Knebworth in June 1990.

CB: We performed 'Wearing and Tearing' at Knebworth, and rehearsing it was a great leveller as none of us had ever played it live before - Robert and Jimmy included!

SS: What was going through your mind, knowing you had to fill the heavy shoes of John Bonham on those songs?

CB: Didn't really occur to me until Knebworth when I found myself playing the intro to 'Rock and Roll' in front of 125,000 people with both Robert and Jimmy . . . the drum solo bit at the end was a bit fraught and I wish I'd played it better! There really was no point in emulating Bonzo as he was a one off, so I just played the stuff how I remembered it with a hint of CB thrown in for good measure!

The conclusion of the Chris Blackwell interview can be found here, focusing on Blackwell's work with Plant on Fate of Nations (1991-1993) and his other professional work to the time of the interview.

John Paul Jones interview with Lemon Squeezings (in 22 parts)

John Paul Jones sat down with me for an interview on Dec. 10, 2001. Because the interview was scheduled for only one hour of his time, I didn't bother to bring more than 120 minutes' worth of blank cassette tape. Jones and I started on time, but our conversation unexpectedly went on for nearly four full hours!

Over this time, he an interview that is believed to be his longest and most in-depth since 1977. Also, Jones busted out the instruments he himself carried into his hotel upon arrival from a bus traveling from the previous night's gig in Connecticut.

As I mentioned, not enough tape was available to record the full conversation. Even if I had brought enough tape, certain things he told me were off the record and could never be repeated. Other portions that were taped were too inaudible to be transcribed. For these reasons, the full interview will never be published anywhere.

Nevertheless, I have broken the interview transcript portions available to me into 22 sections as outlined below:

1. John Paul Jones on his early days
2. John Paul Jones on the Yardbirds
3. John Paul Jones on the formation of Led Zeppelin
4. John Paul Jones on touring with Led Zeppelin
   
5. John Paul Jones on the Bath Festival 1970
6. John Paul Jones on blaming the Beatles
7. John Paul Jones on Phil Carson
8. John Paul Jones on the "drag queen" story
9. John Paul Jones on the story that he was considering leaving Zeppelin early
10. John Paul Jones on touring with John Bonham
11. John Paul Jones on all the keyboard instruments he plays
12. John Paul Jones on his Mellotron and Fairlight keyboards
13. John Paul Jones on "progressive" music
14. John Paul Jones on the "tight" Zeppelin
15. John Paul Jones on Led Zeppelin's accusations of plagiarism
16. John Paul Jones on journalists
17. John Paul Jones on his daughter Jacinda's music
18. John Paul Jones on his theatrical and cultural work in Spain
19. John Paul Jones on the title of "Nosumi Blues" from his solo album Zooma
20. John Paul Jones on his singing
21. John Paul Jones on his unreleased and bonus tracks
22. John Paul Jones on his management and record label

In addition to the above portions, we discussed other topics. Some of these exchanges have also been disseminated in my newsletter, "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History." These include:

• John Paul Jones on the pointlessness of a Led Zeppelin reunion
• John Paul Jones on his lack of input as to where he tours
  

Will Jimmy Page recognize the DVD format's potential?

This news originally appeared in an edition of the newsletter "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History."

Concerts like the one 31 years ago today, during Led Zeppelin's "Return To The Clubs" U.K. tour, may have been officially recorded. Jimmy Page has mentioned throughout the years that his vault of live Led Zeppelin recordings includes a number of professionally recorded concerts from the era. He frequently mentioned an amazing gig captured at Southampton University, the 31st anniversary of which passed one week ago today.

These tapes, Page repeated again and again over the years, could be released someday on a Led Zeppelin live box set. Although no official chronological live compilation has ever emerged from Page, he's never forgotten his words. In early 2000, he would state that he would hate to spend a lot of time working on such a set, only to have it vetoed by another former member of Led Zeppelin.

However, there's still hope that there will be some sort of a chronological live compilation. The DVD format opens up new possibilities for this, which I'm sure Page has explored at great lengths. There was talk in December 2001 of such a set being released in spring 2002. John Paul Jones told me on Dec. 10, "I can't imagine it will be out by the spring -- not the way we make decisions, anyway!" He turned out to be correct.

Chris Blackwell interview, Part 1: Early influences through 1987

This three-part interview of Chris Blackwell originally appeared in an edition of the newsletter "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History."

Chris Blackwell played drums on three Robert Plant albums (1985-1993) and two tours (1988 and 1990). He also played some guitar and mandolin for Plant in the studio and on the stage. Chris had the opportunity recently to answer some questions for me, and I'm presenting the interview here in three parts.

SS: Chris, thanks for all your help.

CB: No problem- glad I could be of help!

SS: We might as well start from the very beginning. Tell me about your musical influences as a child.

CB: According to my parents, I started hitting things when I was 3! Our neighbour used to play the drums and we would often hear him through the wall practising. Sometimes he would let me go and watch. I remember vividly that his kit had a very interesting smell about it, and of course it was very loud! He later emigrated to South Africa and didn't want to take the kit with him, so my Dad bought it and gave it to me for my eleventh birthday - that was that!

I've been in bands since the age of 14 but picked up the guitar at around 10, bass at 17, and keyboards at 20. There were always instruments lying around at rehearsals and so I would amuse myself with them during the breaks.

The first album I ever bought was Led Zeppelin 4, and this had an undoubted effect on me. I also loved Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Prokofiev, Ralph Vaughan Wiliams and Return to Forever. All very much a part of me now as a musician. I firmly believe that music is an all encompassing thing - you miss so much if you close your mind to certain genres!

SS: So you were a Led Zeppelin fan. Had you heard any of Plant's solo work before joining his band?

CB: Funnily enough, some friends and I drove from London, England to Northern Spain. We covered about 1,000 miles in 24 hours. And we played Shaken 'n' Stirred all the way down! It had just been released then, and my friend had just bought it and kept playing it! The drumming is very complex on the album. I remember saying to my friend "I'd like to have played on this album!"

We [Plant's band] did "Pink and Black" live sometimes, and some of those fast rolls are very difficult to fit in!

SS: Tell me about how you got to be in Plant's band.

CB: I did a lot of session work in and around London and was always in the studio doing something or other. Anyway, one of the people I used to work with a lot was Phil Johnstone. I had drummed on a few of his demos, and Virgin (Phil's publisher) had sent some of these tracks to Robert as potential singles for his new album. Robert liked one track in particular ("Heaven Knows") and also happened to like my drumming (I was on the demo).

Next thing I know there's a message on my answering machine saying "Hi, it's Robert Plant" and would I like to join his band? He didn't even get his manager to call me!

SS: That must have been exciting. Did you call him back right away?

CB: I didn't hesitate in calling him back because I thought it was a wind up! I mean you don't normally get Robert Plant leaving messages do you!

SS: Lots of folks say he doesn't call enough. What did you expect -- musically or personally -- when you got involved with him?

CB: I'm not sure really . . . the first meeting was a terrifying experience 'cos I had all these preconceptions of how he would be I guess. As it turned out he was (and is) a really nice bloke. Any nerves I had totally disappeared after our first handshake! Musically it was a session for me because as far as I knew I was contracted to record the album and that was that. After the recording was finished Robert started talking about us as a band and about the upcoming tours and so on. I had no idea at that time of the fun that was in store!

Part two of the Chris Blackwell interview covers the beginning of his work with Robert Plant.

A run of 'Thunder'; overview of latest solo album from John Paul Jones

This news originally appeared in an edition of the newsletter "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History."

As promised, here is a description of the music on John Paul Jones' new album, The Thunderthief, slated to be released Tuesday in the United States and later this month in Europe.

The full-on rock explosion of the opener, "Leafy Meadows," contains Jones' catchiest instrumental melody to date. While the artist lays down a punchy bass line resembling the "Macarena," Nick Beggs uses his Chapman stick to play the complicated main theme. Drummer Terl Bryant keeps a straightforward rhythm and medium pace. Halfway through the song, King Crimson leader Robert Fripp joins to provide the guitar solo. That opening track definitely works here, and it would have also felt right had it been on Jones' 1999 effort, Zooma.

The most obvious difference between this album and his previous is that Jones sings on a few songs here whereas Zooma was strictly instrumental. On Dec. 10, 2001, I asked Jones why sing?

"Well, as you probably know, I've always said that I didn't want a person on lead vocals," he told me. "It's like walking a dog. All of a sudden, he becomes the producer and I'd end up [not in charge anymore]."

Jones continued his rationale, saying, "And I didn't want to rewrite Zooma. I had this idea that instead of having the riffs as the melody, I thought I would have the riff and the melody on top."

After some thought, he arrived at his ultimate conclusion: "So I thought, I can do it."

Cleverly, Jones' title track begins with the sound effects of thunder and rain. The verses contain a call-and-response between his vocals and a hard rock line represented by doubled basses. The lyrics, written by Peter Blegvad, describe the legend of "The Thunderthief."

Jones tells how that came about:

"So in fact, Peter Blegvad came to me, the singer-songwriter who also did the artwork. And he also handed me lyrics that he hadn't set to music. And he gave me two [pieces], one called 'The Thunderthief' and one called 'Ice Fishing at Night.' And I put them to music and just tried to experiment to sing on them, and if I liked it, I'd put it on. And I thought it was OK."

In "The Thunderthief," Jones' first lead vocal since his Scream for Help soundtrack in 1985 is muffled and distorted. The song really has the feel of a playful track by the Butthole Surfers. After each repetition of the chorus is a lengthy, complicated piano line played in multiple octaves at a speed beyond humanly possible. Somehow, for me, it evokes images of the Addams Family.

Next, the instrumental "Hoediddle" begins with no less than 2:52 of multilayered yet unaccompanied soloing, in the same style as Led Zeppelin's "In the Light" from 1975 and Jones' "Nosumi Blues" from 1999. What follows the long intro is an electrified bluegrass melody. During the song's last 49 seconds, the electric instruments fade out, revealing only mandolin, koto and ukulele. They all continue playing a bluegrass jingle reminiscent of Afro Celt Sound System's "Colossus."

Jones plays "Ice Fishing at Night" exclusively on a multi-tracked piano. The second song with lyrics (also written by Blegvad), it speaks about some things in nature. The darkest part of the song is perhaps the instrumental break. Jones' piano playing here is just a step above George Winston. He limits his improvisation to within a modal scale. However, the brighter major chords in a lyrical section about "springtime" and "dawn" suggest just what the lyrics do: brightness. The song starts and fades with some gentle soaring noises.

The sound of an old vinyl record, complete with pops and cracks, ushers in "Daphne." Jones follows with a bass line played on one of his many-stringed bass guitars. Soon, it seems as if the melody is going to be provided by more piano, but the 88 keys take a back seat. The main instrument then is a Keith Emerson-inspired synthesizer part that sounds like it was modeled after a section of ELP's "Tarkus."

The piano takes over again while vocal samples come to the fore in the mix. A female says "hello," and a male says "yes." These two samples repeat as Jones plays a funky four-string bass solo. (The male voice on "Daphne" is generated by probably the same speech synthesizer employed on "Fitter, Happier," from Radiohead's OK Computer.) The vocal samples escalate into a two-line exchange. "I really wanted the sound of the voice," Jones explained to me. "I even made the sound of the voice in 'Grind' on Zooma, just sampled, because I like the sound of it."

Jones said he felt that using only vocal samples "was cheating myself," which helped him decide that he should sing too. He does sing on the next track, "Angry Angry." If "Wearing and Tearing" was Led Zeppelin's brush with punk, then "Angry Angry" is much the same to John Paul Jones. But the song lasts seconds short of the six-minute mark, and so it lacks the brevity of
most punk music.

Already, Jones had recorded his vocals for the two other songs whose lyrics had been written by Blegvad. Jones liked them but thought he should have a few more songs with words. "I thought, I've tried singing, now I'll try lyric writing!" Jones told me.

"So I tried it, and it was great fun! Got the word processor going, and -- 'Ah, this isn't so bad!' You look up, and you've written three verses. 'Oh, OK, that's all right!'

"'Angry Angry' started off as a guitar solo. There's a friend of mine whom I met in New York, called Adam Bomb. He calls up one day and says, 'I'm at the Borderline, tonight!' 'Oh, OK.' So I went down, saw him, and I was blown away, it was sort of 'glam punk.' He was brilliant. It was amazing, I really liked it.

"The next day I called him up, I said, 'Come up, come to my house, bring a guitar.' He said, 'What, the acoustic, Jones?' 'No, bring your electric guitar.' I wanted to play him a track. He said, 'OK,' so he came over.

"But I hadn't actually got a track. So I mopped up like 24 bars on the drum machine with a bass riff and just put that down and just said, 'OK, this is all there is. Play over it.'"

Adam Bomb recorded a "screaming solo," as Jones called it. It continues through the fade of the song, at times adding harmonics not unlike ZZ Top's "La Grange" and quick firepower fretwork not unlike the electric guitar solo in Led Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker."

At that point in the recording process, Adam Bomb had left the country, and Jones was left with an instrumental track that needed more. "So I thought: Lyrics! Turn it into a song."

The lyrics, an example of Jones' own writing, are told from the point of view of someone who is simply angry all the time. Progressively through each verse, his vocal line sounds more and more angry. (He actually starts out quite monotonous and understated in the first verse.) Following the furious guitar solo, Jones is able to pull off the proper emotion through a groaning,
straining yell.

Jones took me through the process of picking a topic for the lyrics of this song. "Maybe I'll write a protest song of some sort," he said he'd originally thought. "And then the more I thought about it, I said, 'Ah, that's kind of corny.' And I thought I'll write a protest song about people who are always protesting!"

Laughing, he continued:

"You know those people who are always angry. You know, what happens? Nothing's right for them. I thought, I'll write a song about that. And that's what it's about. And that was loads of fun being completely removed from it. It's sort of autobiographical in that I know people like this. But everybody knows people like this. When you're in your car, there's always some arse going, 'Grrrr!' The day must be miserable for you."

I asked whether any bit of "Angry Angry" was written as a response to his former Led Zeppelin bandmates for having not included him in their reunion. He immediately said no. "I'm not that sort of person at all," he said. "But as soon as I finished that, I thought, people are going to read stuff into this. But you can't."

The only track on the album not written or co-written by Jones, "Down to the River to Pray," is next. This traditional folk song was used in the Academy Award-winning 2000 cult film O Brother Where Art Thou? and on its soundtrack. Here, Jones handles for the first time an arch-top triple-neck mandolin, made by Andy Manson and mentioned here Feb. 3.

"Shibuya Bop" has the feel of most tracks on Zooma. It is also probably the most intricate piece on the album and thus Jones' career. The musical styles of King Crimson and Rush blend together for the first and third parts of the song. During the second, Jones improvises, both using the Kyma sound design workstation and a Hammond organ. After this, the first part reprises once again, courtesy of Jones' koto, which takes the song to a near-collision halt.

To finish off another nine-track collection, Jones recorded a simple track called "Freedom Song." In this little Celtic ditty, the protagonist proposes a leisurely trip to his lover. In each of the verses, he mentions such vacation plans as seeing Carnegie Hall, renting a bike, letting Mum take over to watch the kids, calling in sick to work. Jones sings his own original lyrics here, backed not by any band but just his own ukulele. Andy Manson made that instrument for Jones back in 1979.

Manson brothers continue to innovate when building instruments

This news originally appeared in an edition of the newsletter "On This Day In Led Zeppelin History."

Instruments or equipment made or repaired by Hugh and his brother Andy Manson can also be found in the hands of such musicians as Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Steve Howe of Yes, Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson and Martin Barre, and members of Oasis and the Stereophonics.

"There's a new English band called Muse," Hugh told me. "They've got a massive recording deal with Madonna's label, Maverick." He said that the guitarist of Muse, Matt Bellamy, now 23, walked into Manson's Guitar Shop one day with an odd request: "Can you put a whammy pedal in the guitar?"

Hugh must feel that nothing is impossible. "So we built a little microprocessor in the instrument," he said. "I've made him some amazing stuff, with MIDI on board, an actual MIDI controller in the guitar. So for example, you can control a whammy pedal, which is on the floor, with a laptop computer pad on the instrument. It also has a built-in Theremin pad."

Bellamy's future is a bright one, predicted Hugh. "I think he is a guy to look out for," he said. "He is very exciting as a player, and he has some wonderfully demanding ideas for me to create. You should see what I'm working on for him now! It involves lots of lasers."

Necessity is the mother of invention, it's been stated many times. This could be the premise that guides the work of Hugh and Andy Manson, inventors in their own right. Andy, who designed and built the triple-neck guitar for John Paul Jones in 1976, is still creating new instruments for Jones these days.

"Andy's made something; it's not a secret anymore," Hugh told me. "It's a three-neck arch-top mandolin. It has mandolin, mandola and bass mandolin. It has a carved top. That features on the new album [on "Down to the River to Pray"], and we hopefully will be touring with it as well."

These days, Hugh is closely involved with Jones' concerts, looking after the instruments and amplifiers. On tour, Jones has used an array of basses, keyboards, plus stringed instruments like the mandolin, ukulele and the bass lap steel. Other sounds come courtesy of the Kyma sound design workstation. All of that, including Terl Bryant's drums and Nick Beggs' Chapman stick, fall under Hugh's jurisdiction. "I'm responsible for the day-to-day running of the stage, really," he said.

It's a huge commitment, but Hugh couldn't be any more pleased with his boss on the road. "We go back a long way," he gushed. "John is so nice to work with, a great guy -- no attitude, just a true pro and an amazing musician. I wouldn't miss a tour for the world, although it does seriously cut into guitar building time!"

The brothers' building time is best explained in Andy Manson's book, Talking Wood: A Guitar Maker's Diary. With the foreword written by none other than John Paul Jones himself, the 140-page book was published in hardcover form. "There is only a limited run, so I think it will become a collector's piece," said Hugh.

"It's like an instrument maker's diary over a year," he added. "It's not like how to build a guitar, although you probably could from the photos! It's a diary of what a good guitar maker would do, if people are interested."

Around 250 color photos grace the book. Included among them are Jones with his eight-string acoustic bass, his 12-string bass, and the crowning glory, his triple-neck acoustic guitar. Some of the photos document the building of a replica three-neck for a Japanese Led Zeppelin tribute band called Cinnamon.

Next, what you can expect to hear on John Paul Jones' new album, The Thunderthief. It is scheduled to be released on Tuesday in the United States and later in the month in Europe.